“They (Queens of Sheba) go through this journey where they explore and confront the misogynoir, misogynoir is the intersect of racism and sexism”. Jessica
Turned away from a nightclub for being “too black”, four women take to the stage with their own explosive true stories: the music and the misogyny, the dancing and the drinking, the women and, of course, the (white) men.
Loosely based on the DSTRKT nightspot incident of 2015, Queens of Sheba tells the hilarious, moving and uplifting stories of four passionate Black Women battling every-day misogynoir; where sexism meets racism.
Jessica Hagan is a writer from London. Queens of Sheba was her first play. She is part of Nouveau Riche, a diverse, exciting, new, creative movement, headed by a team of professional artists and producers. Their objective is to discover, nurture and produce unique stories from all walks of life, with a keen scope on work that is both educational and entertaining. ALT’s Founder Joy Coker caught up with Hagan to talk!!!
ALT:
What was your journey into writing? How did you get to this place?
Jessica:
I started off writing spoken word and poetry, and that’s pretty much what Queens of Sheba is. Ryan Calais Cameron adapted Queens of Sheba, we worked together to create the production and he basically asked if I could write spoken word on particular topics to do with black women. So, Jessica Kaliisa, the director, hosted these focus groups and I sat in on them and recorded them. I listened back to the focus groups and through that created these spoken word pieces based on different topics; racism in the workplace dating, music, getting ready, things like that. And it ended up forming the entire play. So when Ryan went to adapt it, we actually just kept all of the lines as a spoken word is, and assigned them to the characters that we created through that spoken word. So, that’s how Queens of Sheba ended up being written. It’s very, very musical. It’s very lyrical. And that’s because it originates from spoken word and poetry.
ALT:
So how did you start writing?
Jessica:
I think I actually just fell into writing. It was never an intentional career path. I went to university to do law, and then I started working as a web developer and after that I became a project manager. Writing was just something that I enjoyed. It was something that naturally I was good at. I read a lot growing up. My parents were very, very big on us reading books. I spent a lot of my childhood in the library, back in the day. I don’t know if it happens anymore, but there used to be these writing competitions. I think they’d happen twice a year. You would get stickers for every book that you would read. I don’t know if it was just city of Westminster that did the initiative, but because of that, I used to read a lot and I still do read quite a bit. I think that made me enjoy English a lot. It was something that I was always naturally very good at, and very naturally good at expressing myself through words as well.
Queens of Sheba at Soho Theatre. (Photo: Eddie Osei)
ALT:
What do you like most about your job as a writer?
Jessica:
That’s a really good question. I like that there are no boundaries, or that I can approach writing with no boundaries. I really like that I can translate everything I feel internally and put it into words and another person can pick it up. I see it as a massive advantage to be able to do such a thing. And words travel so far, which is also very exciting.
ALT:
So, Jessica, it’s been a hell of two years for us, you know, with Covid. The conversation around race has really accelerated, what has this space been like for you? The play is about colourism, racism against darker skinned women, how do you feel things have improved? What would you like to see change, what message(s) do you want to put out there?
Jessica:
Another really good question. I don’t know if things have improved per se. I think what’s happening is that there’s a really strong community of black women especially, who are encouraging and empowering one another to take up space, to break the glass ceiling, and to confront a lot of the racism that exists, whether that be through microaggressions or institutional racism. I think what I’m seeing more of is black women taking up that space and an occasional ally who is opening the doors for black women to take up that space. I don’t know if improving is the word, but it definitely feels like there is progress in so many areas, I think there is increased representation, which is completely important. I think in as much as brands are jumping on to representation as a trend, there is a lot of benefit in it for the generations that are coming up. We understand that a lot of this is performative allyship, but I also think that especially black women are being quite clever and quite smart in how we approach this kind of performative allyship, using it to break boundaries and open doors. I also think we’re creating more sectors for ourselves as well. For example, the work you are doing Joy, creating more platforms that are giving opportunities to black people and black women, especially.
So, I don’t know if it’s improved. Funnily enough, I bounce between Ghana and the UK, so my experiences are really different now. Not so much in the UK, but in Ghana, I’m in an environment where everybody is black, and the majority of people are dark-skinned. There are less conversations about racism and more conversations about sexism and misogyny, which is still misogynoir because we are black women.
I noticed that my approach is evolving and changing because of this. As a result, I care less about…how do I word this? I care less about the perspective of race. I think it used to get to me on a personal level much more. Whereas now I see it as something that needs to be dismantled, I’m able to approach it from the power and the emancipation that comes from living in an all-black country. It’s helped my self-esteem, it’s helped my confidence and it’s helped me to not pander to these white structures, helped me to exist and know that actually I don’t need to pander to them, that there is another way to challenge these limitations and these oppressions.
ALT:
In terms of living in Ghana, what is the arts scene there like, are you actively working there as a writer?
Jessica:
Ghana’s got a really thriving arts scene and I think Ghana’s in a place where the infrastructure is still currently being built, which is very exciting, because it means there is so much room to begin things and to start things, and you can really see the impact of your creativity. I work my day job as a grant maker essentially, a programme manager, which means that I give funding to creatives in Africa. So not just in Ghana, but creative organisations and individuals in Africa who are shifting narratives about the continent, meaning that when I’m not writing, I’m still very much in the creative sector. Ghana is an amazing place and it’s somewhere that I have used to fuel my writing, though I haven’t actually showcased any of my writing here in Ghana for a while. It’s also somewhere where I’m trying to build sectors and communities, especially in theatre, which is really exciting, and I have lots of great projects in the pipeline!
ALT:
Does Ghana have a thriving theatre industry?
Jessica:
I wouldn’t call it an industry. We have the National Theatre, which is a fantastic building, but there tends to kind of be one playwright whose plays are in that theatre. However, this playwright sells out, and the theatre is buzzing. People absolutely love his work, which is absolutely fantastic. And then you get little pockets of theatre, around, especially Accra and Kumasi. What I would love to see is for theatre to become a full-blown industry. I think we’re on the way there, and that is the work that I’m championing at the moment, creating a theatre industry. What that really looks like is not taking the UK theatre industry and trying to copy and paste it here, but what does the theatre industry look like in the context of being on the continent, specifically in a place like Ghana, which has great history, where theatre is not foreign to us or foreign to our culture.
ALT:
In terms of the pandemic, what effect has that had on you creatively and what have you learned from this experience?
Jessica:
So, firstly, I got stuck in Ghana. I think it was much better than being stuck in the UK.I did get stuck in Ghana, which I think I needed. It was nice to be stuck in a hot country, even though we weren’t able to actually go out.But the pandemic enabled me to join a lot of courses and it allowed me to learn a lot more. I think my introduction to writing was very unconventional,Queens of Sheba is my first play, and it has actually done really well. It’s won awards, by the grace of God. It’s been on every single year since we first did the show, which was in 2017, we’re now in 2022 and we’re going into another run this year. Glory to God! But it meant that I felt as though there were very few opportunities for me to be able to actually learn how to be a playwright properly.
A lot of the programs that were coming out, because the book has also been published, it means I was not eligible for, because it looks like I was overqualified when, no, I really needed that. So, during the pandemic, there were so many different courses and things where I could learn writing, which is really, really great. I also got to think about like, who am I? I mean, we all did that, after we finished baking banana bread, we all had time to think. You know, Queens was written from a lot of my perspective and a lot of my experiences, and I got to think about what is my experience now and actually, what does my next piece of work look like? Is misogynoir something that I will constantly write about and speak about, or do I want to explore other areas? So there was lots of times to think, which is really great.
ALT:
Who, and what inspires you, in terms of your work?
Jessica:
So, I’m a Christian, and I am a reader, I’m an avid reader and I love the Bible, not just from a faith perspective, but from a storytelling perspective. Especially if you read the Old Testament, and things like Psalms and Proverbs it’s so, so lyrical. The Bible is so lyrical and the way that stories are told is so exciting. I think that’s one thing that really, really inspires me, and this is a book which has existed throughout history, right? It’s a book that, and once again, even if you’re not approaching it from a faith perspective, if you read the book, it’s like watching a TV series, especially the Old Testament, because so much happens. So, I get a lot of inspiration by how those stories are told, and I get a lot of inspiration by this scripture says this, what is it actually trying to say, through breaking down scriptures. In the same way that Queens of Sheba, by the grace of God, is being used in schools now, and people are looking at a line and thinking, what is this trying to say? I love that people can break down the intention behind it and get completely different things from it, which is great. Outside of that, I’m inspired by black women.I’m inspired by black women of all ranges in all countries, whether that be in Ghana, or being in the UK, I’m inspired by our journeys collectively and the journeys that I hear individually.
I think I’ve never felt a support like I have from black women, and that wants me to continue writing. Then naturally, I’m inspired by the people around me. I’m inspired by my family, they’ve broken boundaries. I’m inspired by my friends. I’m inspired by my partner. I’m inspired by, you know, everyone around me, I’m inspired by my pastors, I’m inspired by the people around me, which is really, really exciting.
ALT:
So, in terms of going forward, what kind of things do you have in the pipeline?
Jessica:
It’s been a really interesting journey and I was having this conversation with somebody yesterday that, like I was saying to you, living in Ghana has changed my journey a lot. There are a lot of conversations that happen now where I feel really out of the loop because of my experiences of being in this all-black country. Like I wake up to adverts of black families and dark-skinned families and I walk down the street and everyone is black and dark-skinned. And like I said, when it comes to relationships, when it comes to male, female attraction, everything is just very, very different here. So I did feel like, is it still my story to tell when I speak about misogynoir specifically in the Western society, in a Western context, now that I’ve moved and it’s, it is a battle that I’ve had.
I want to include a lot more of my Ghana experience in my writing, but also this exploring of my identity is something I still want to carry through in my work.I’m currently writing another play, which I’m really excited about. It’s not as intense as Queens of Sheba. It’s quite fun and it’s quite playful and I’m excited that I’ve been able to give myself the room to not have to try and write something in parallel to Queens of Sheba, but actually to be all sides of myself and to write from all aspects and all different sides of my personality and my desires.
Queens of Sheba at Soho Theatre. (Photo: Eddie Osei)
ALT:
What would you say makes a good writer for anyone who wants to become a writer whether they’re old or young, what are some of the key components to good writing?
Jessica:
This is just my perspective, but I think a good writer is an honest writer. I think if you can be really, really honest with what you want from your characters and what your characters feel and what your words are trying to say naturally, you are going to be a fantastic writer anyway. I really try to write from the heart, I really, really try to write difficult things, things that are true and honest to me. So, it is not for people to agree, but at least I know when I’ve put work out that I’m not being anyone, but my heart, which I think makes a good wright. And I think if I think about the writers that I’m in love with, it’s the writers who are super honest and super integral.
ALT:
Do you have any directors that you would like to work with either here or In Ghana perhaps?
Jessica:
I do, there are a lot of directors that I’d like to work with, Jessica Kaliisa who directed Queens of Sheba, I would absolutely love to work with her again. She is phenomenal. She has an eye that I just do not understand, yeah I’d absolutely love to work with her again. Daniel Bailey who’s at the Bush Theatre is a fantastic director and someone who I would absolutely love to work with, I recently had the privilege of sitting in rehearsals for Red Pitch. I think it really says something when you have a director, who’s able to engage with actors at such a casual but professional level. I think he pours his heart into his work and into his actors, and I trust that anything I would give to him would come alive. So, there are two people that I’d love, to continue working with Jessica, and to work with Daniel Bailey in the future.
ALT:
For those who do not really know the story of Queens of Sheba, without giving too much away, can you tell us, in your own words, what it’s about?
Jessica:
So, Queens of Sheba is about four women who are best friends. They’re really good friends. And they set out to go to a nightclub where they are turned away for being too dark, too big, not light-skinned enough, not conventionally pretty enough. They go through this journey where they explore and confront the misogynoir, misogynoir is the intersect of racism and sexism. So they explore this misogynoir, they confront it, they address how they feel about it and they lift one another up. So, you basically go through this really fun, but intense 60-minute journey with these four fantastic characters.
ALT:
Did you have any input in choosing the lead characters? Who are the characters in the play?
Jessica:
No, so actually we workshopped Queens of Sheba and we ended up naming our characters after the four original cast members, which was Winnie, Jacoba, Koko and Rachel. So, we named the Queens after the four original cast members, and then every time we casted we’ve named the character after that person. The reason is because Queens is not really one voice, but separate voices. And so, in the four characters or the four cast members, what you are seeing is their approach and their interpretation of the lines and of the play. So, it’s so personal, which is really, really great because our current cast, which is Elisha, Tosin, Koko and Eshe, you see they pour their hearts and their souls into it, and they’re able to be who they want to be as black women on the stage, which is what we really, really wanted from the play.
Queens of Sheba at Soho Theatre. (Photo: Eddie Osei)
ALT:
Finally, in terms of spoken word, can you tell us a bit about that? How that came into play?
Jessica:
So, spoken word is something that I did anyway. I grew up in the grime scene era. I wanted to be a rapper…I wasn’t very successful. But I grew up in a time where words and word play was everything. And that’s how I got into spoken word, because I couldn’t be a rapper, but I wanted to write. So, I used to write spoken word pieces because it was the closest thing, right. So, Queens was spoken word, if you strip Queens of its play status and you just read the scenes, it will be a spoken word piece. And so, it is still very much a spoken word thing to me. Then, it’s something I do in all of my work is it’s lyrical. I love wordplay. I love, especially like as a black woman, I love rhythm. You know what I mean? I love the rhythm that I have naturally. I love the rhythm that I talk in being someone who is back and forth between Ghana and the UK, Ghana’s very lyrical, it’s very rhythmic and I love putting that in my work and it becoming something to an audience. So yeah, spoken word is something that will be carried through all of my work. Definitely.
Book tickets. runs until 26th Feb 2022
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